Curse

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Among average, good, and great stat shields an eternal is worth considerably more than a tall shield, as the eternal is far more rare. Among shields with absolutely flawless stats (i.e. two mods both maxed) the tall and eternal are equally rare (as in they are practically unique in the game), and the two are generally valued equally as well

i fail to believe that a rarer, FAR more sought shield type would fetch less or the same value as a shield that is not.
from all the hours i have spent in trade channels, talking with other traders about thier sales and whatnot, i have seen that with the market for shields, aegis, tall and defender are about equal in value, almost always consistently.

Whoa, I don't want to get into a raging debate, I just want to make sure that people get all opinions, and I am an authority on the value of shields. You are free to differ in your opinion and certainly in your shield preferences. I talk about how the market values things and also about what I personally would pay. I acknowledge that there are people out there who love ugly shields like the reinforced buckler and average and common shields like the aegis.

my intention was not to initiate a debate, but merely to point out that making a blanket statement that such a shield would not break 500k simply becase you yourself would not pay 500k is hardly definite of the market, i am very, very capable of recognizing the difference in my own sentiments and the actual value of an item.
i would never buy a chaos axe, sickle, tall shield, twin hammer, etc, for my own use, because i think they are all as ugly as sh*t, but that doesnt mean people wont buy them.
as is, i know several people who would have GLADLY bid 700-800k for the shield; so i figured paying a premium to guerentee it came into my possession, was well worth not taking the risk of losing it.

I agree that many people would pay mid range six figure sums (500K) for that shield you bought. The stats are comparable to Malinon's (66% of the total health bonus, but no condition thereon) and the skin is the same. The req is exceptionally low, but anything 10 or less is generally adequate, and the market is finally coming to the realization that splurges on req 7s, for the sake of their increasingly common requirement, are beyond foolish.

i do agree.
many, if not most people, would NOT purchase the shield i bought, even if they had the money, because they can get a far cheaper green one and have almost the same or greater effect depending on thier build.
HOWEVER, if there were a green tall shield w/ 9 req +30 always /-2 stance or ench, would that stop you from buying gold ones?
probably not, why? because just like w/ me and my love of gold perfect aegis class shields; seperating myself from the people who own one of any 500,000 green shields is half the point of having purchased it. if you're rich enough to afford a perfect shield and have enough left over to consider other purchases, why even consider a green one? unless you're looking to save money for another purchase, or something of the like.
and yes, 7 reqs are getting far more common; but imagine tomorrow they stop all req 7s from ever dropping again, like they did with 15% no condition weapons.
imagine what would happen to the value of all the 7 reqs out there; and this is just as plausible as them over-saturating the market and becoming readily available to everyone in GW; the difference is, if arena net makes the game so easy that a 7 req perfectly modded weapon becomes standard equipment to the vast majortiy of players, then at that point the game has become too easy, and i shall decline to play it further.
this is the same reason tens of thousands of people quite d2 when 1.1 was initiated; it became too easy, and all the problems before the patch were not addressed, merely compounded.
hopefully GW will not take the same path, and will stop the over-saturation of the market with not only req 7s, but perfect items in general, dead in its tracks.

FYI: to the mods, please do not delete mine or LBS's posts as i have no intention of allowing this discussion degrade itself into a ritualistic sh*t-flinging contest.

Blue Steel · Oct 19, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

but imagine tomorrow they stop all req 7s from ever dropping again, like they did with 15% no condition weapons.
imagine what would happen to the value of all the 7 reqs out there; and this is just as plausible as them over-saturating the market and becoming readily available to everyone in GW; the difference is, if arena net makes the game so easy that a 7 req perfectly modded weapon becomes standard equipment to the vast majortiy of players, then at that point the game has become too easy, and i shall decline to play it further.
this is the same reason tens of thousands of people quite d2 when 1.1 was initiated; it became too easy, and all the problems before the patch were not addressed, merely compounded.
hopefully GW will not take the same path, and will stop the over-saturation of the market with not only req 7s, but perfect items in general, dead in its tracks.

Many people have already declined to play the game further, Akhilleus, and your holding out in hopes that Anet reverses its consistent decisions to make rare items very common place seems ill-advised to me. Anet's philosophy has always been to create a game without grind where casual players can get the rarest items and certainly the statistical equivalents. The game is hard or easy based on the inherent challenge of the PvE and the quality of the competition in PvP. That's the way it should be. If it was about who could collect the most req 7 items before they vomited in boredom, I never would have played in the first place (even though I would have won if I had . . .)

On topic, I think our opinions are not that different, so I'm still wondering about your initial post, but I will reiterate: I never said that the aegis wouldn't break 500K. Only a tiny handful would even want that shield (for a number of reasons including, but not limited to, green effect), but that tiny handful is what matters when you are selling, as we both know. The req 7 increases its value, but only nominally. I said the value would be in the mid six figures, which makes 500K a quick, easy estimate. I think you overpaid. The important thing, by far, is that you are happy with your purchase, and if you are happy, nothing in the world should detract from that.

How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 aegises have you seen in all your GW time? How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 tall shields have you seen? How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 eternal shields? How many magmas?

For me it has been hundreds of aegises (and about a dozen if you "don't count" Malinons, even though the market does count it), four tall shields, two eternals, and one magmas. I will be the first to say that I have not seen every shield in the game, and for all I know hundreds of inexperienced players are salvaging perfect 45/-2 and 30/-2 tall shields for steel all the time. But I doubt it.

Once you get to numbers that can be count on one hand in the market, you have to consider the items virtually unique, and the value turns on what the people with the wealth prefer. Pure and simple.

Even if I was alone in thinking that tall shields are the best looking in the game (and I assure you I am not; I wish there were far, far less who liked those shields as I could get beautiful shields at much lower prices if there were), as one with considerable virtual wealth, the market is shaped in part by my preferences.

Jetdoc · Oct 19, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Akhilleus likes Aegis, and LBS has a fetish for tall shields.

Both of you are missing the beauty of the green green and more green reinforced buckler.

J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets!!!!!

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Many people have already declined to play the game further, Akhilleus, and your holding out in hopes that Anet reverses its consistent decisions to make rare items very common place seems ill-advised to me. Anet's philosophy has always been to create a game without grind where casual players can get the rarest items and certainly the statistical equivalents. The game is hard or easy based on the inherent challenge of the PvE and the quality of the competition in PvP. That's the way it should be. If it was about who could collect the most req 7 items before they vomited in boredom, I never would have played in the first place (even though I would have won if I had . . .)

this is, sadly true, and partially the reaosn i took so long to get GW. i only got it when i was assured by friends that while it was easy to obtain max stat weapons, it was hard to obtain the highest quality. while you are completly and utterly right that anet designed to game to be playable by casual players (hell, green items were PURE genius for that purpose) they also included the idea of golds, for the non-casual players, to add an element of excitement to thier world.
i have absolutly no problem with the increased droprates in gold, so long as they do not overdo it; that was the essense of my last post; blizzard overdid it, and totally and utterly ruiend the game as a result. they chased off the richest players who were disgusted to see vaunted, sought after items readily available for even the poorest of players.
i just hope they dotn make the mistake of oversaturating the market with golds; and if they do, what was the purpose of green and collector items?

I think you overpaid. The important thing, by far, is that you are happy with your purchase, and if you are happy, nothing in the world should detract from that.

i did overpay, i conceded that, 700k would ahve been an entirely reaonable amount for the shield, and im very well are it would ahve gone to 800k, so in that sense i overpaid by about 200k; and i consider that 200k overpayment a 20% bonus to guerentee my possession of said item; something im sure you would do when confronted with your ideal tall shield; something almsot every collector does on an item they know could possibly go higher or be sold to someone else.

How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 aegises have you seen in all your GW time? How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 tall shields have you seen? How many 45/-2 or 30/-2 eternal shields? How many magmas?

ive seen several 45/2 aegises and talls. (i think soemthing like 15-16 aegises and about the same # of talls; curiously, i have seen only one defender w/ these stats)
i have seen TWO 30/2 talls; i have seen THREE 30/2 aegises; (i own 2 of them), one 30/2 magma, zero 30/2 eternals.
(i do not include anything above 11 req.)
and out of all the 30/2 or 45/2 shields i have ever seen, i have seen less than 10 with reqs 9/10; 5 or so with 8, and only 3 with 7, 1 of which i now own.

Even if I was alone in thinking that tall shields are the best looking in the game (and I assure you I am not; I wish there were far, far less who liked those shields as I could get beautiful shields at much lower prices if there were), as one with considerable virtual wealth, the market is shaped in part by my preferences

likewise.
hell, with as many people i get asking me to PC items, i could probably change an items value by lying.
it is not an uncommon occurence for 2 people to ask me to PC an item, only to find one is buying and the other is selling.

Blue Steel · Oct 19, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

likewise.
hell, with as many people i get asking me to PC items, i could probably change an items value by lying.
it is not an uncommon occurence for 2 people to ask me to PC an item, only to find one is buying and the other is selling.

Sounds like we agree on just about everything. If you see any more tall shields like that, you know who will gladly buy them at a premium, and that's what matters to me.

That's hilarious that you have been asked to PC on both sides of a transaction. That happens to me all the time, too. Sellers don't ask me to price check as much anymore, though, because I tend to base my prices on what the market is doing right now, not the hope that Anet will stop releasing req 7s or some other possible future development. I have seen some encouraging signs for sellers in the market recently though, that maybe a bottom has been hit, or at least is getting close.

Speaking of being confided in on both sides of a transaction, did you ever read this story of mine? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=52796

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

i got one to top that.
once bought an item for 1/14th its value, later to find out it was a friend on his 2nd account.

3rdiOpen · Oct 19, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

wow.. a simple price check on a reinforced buckler turned into a war between
Akhilleus and LBS **free bump**

Ryo Miyoko · Oct 19, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

=O/...uhhhh guys the sheild has been sold by the way...and yeah how the hell did my thread turn out into this huge debate....it was just a pc on a ugly sheild imo with nice mods...rofl..=OP

AznPhate · Oct 19, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

how much u get for it?

Ryo Miyoko · Oct 19, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Rofl...all i gotta say was that it was at a 6 figure price...=O)...buyer didn't care about the looks he told me all he cared about was the stat on the sheild which makes me wonder if your smart you wouldn't care about skins and stuff u'd just buy sheilds like these with uber mods and save urself lots of money...but hey u know what alot of us here in guru loves to show off our collections so we go for the fancy looking things lol...even mysefl..=OP

AznPhate · Oct 19, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

all items i use are ugly as hell, but perfect mods.

i buy good looking weapons and sell them ^^ cuz theres always that one scrub who would pay way more just for looks.

Knight of Eternal Darknes · Oct 19, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

if anyone would photoshop a shield, they'd photoshop one like this:

...too bad its a real shield though.

i wouldn't photoshop that shield, if your gonna use while enchanted -dmg mod might as well just use 45 -2 while enchanted

Ryo Miyoko · Oct 19, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Yeh that's true I agree on that ajax...If you gonna buy a sheild with 30 always why would u get a secondary mod with an enchantment...but not to offend u akihillus I still respect your sheild....=O)

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Eternal Darknes

i wouldn't photoshop that shield, if your gonna use while enchanted -dmg mod might as well just use 45 -2 while enchanted

i hear that argument alot;
and to say; if you're goign to get a shield w/ -2 in stance, might as well get the collector shield, right?
the reason you get it is you aknoweldge the fact that while you will be enchanted MOST of the time, when you fight a mesmer w/ shatter enchantment you will NOT be, and shatter enchantment, plus the loss of 45 HP from taking away the effect of your shield, can result in a rather substancial loss, and as a result, instant death in some cases.
so for the 20% of the time you are not enchanted, it makes losing out on 15 potential health the other 80% of the time quite worth it.
and if there was a 30/-1 always/always shield, i would get that instead, but as is only 30/2nd mod exists, and out of these ench or stance are the best, depending on build. w/ my build ench is better, but i also use stances; but i already ahve a 30/-2 stance shield, though if i found a 7 30/-2 stance aegis i'd get that as well, and make a pair out fo the two. but the +30 HP is the main mod; not the -2 dmg ench, the -2dmg ench is merely complimentary.
that is my reasoning.

Blue Steel · Oct 19, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Eternal Darknes

i wouldn't photoshop that shield, if your gonna use while enchanted -dmg mod might as well just use 45 -2 while enchanted

Agreed. I switch between a 45e/-2e shield and a -3h/-2s shield when shattered enchantments become a problem. That's the way to do things.

I have never seen a shield in Guild Wars that I would rather have than this one, below, and in fact, I can't even imagine one within the constraints of the game mechanics.

Akhilleus · Oct 19, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

i do in fact own a 45/2 shield, and i was using my 30/2 as a seccondary switch, when i found that more often than not, it was just more conveniant, and universally useful, to use a 30/2 shield all the time, and a 45/2 shield when you KNOW there will be no shatter enchantment.
in pvp i bring both shields, and switch according to the makeup fo the enemy party.

Knight of Eternal Darknes · Oct 19, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

if your gonna use a tactic shield against a mesmer be easier to with strenght shield and pump up your strength, to just deal more dmg stances arent gonna matter against a mes in any sircumstance unless your only playing in arenas

Akhilleus · Oct 20, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

my str is up high enough, and the req on my shield is req 7.
besides, 1 point in str only raises the AP by 1% of your ATTACK SKILLS ONLY, and seeing as how there are usually 4 people to a team, and theres a very good chance one of those is a ranger or warrior, it helps to have stances readily available.

Idburnu · Oct 22, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I'm not trying to get involved in a two man debate regarding preferences over shield skins, though it is interesting and amusing to read, but do agree with Akhilleus big time on the +30hp always being the best choice, at least from my experience.

Sure you can argue that the +45/-2 enchanted is "better" in that you get more bonus while you are so, but Akhilleus is dead on with the penalty for that being shattered is significant and can be lethal.

On the +30hp always, you can plan your strategy based on the HP that you have and KNOW that you will have them no matter what happens from an adversary. Sure the -2/-3 is great for running Droknars and a -2/-2 works well for certain situations, but none of the HP bonus shields are worth anything to me but the + always variant. Who the heck wants to get their HP down to 150 and then take a 50 dmg hit while your enchantment/stance is over/shattered and drop another 45 instantly? Now you are at 55 and really up the ole' creek without a paddle. You may or may not even have a chance to switch up before you get smacked up. I know you are thinking, "why let your HP get down to 150 anyway?" Well, it happens and I don't like surprises like a 45hp drop compounding a dire situation.

The -2 enchantment bonus on the +30 always is just icing on the cake. A real nice pad when you have it, and no major harm when you don't. It could be -2 dmg vs. Blue Mongolian Swamp Rats and it still is a beautiful shield.

Oh and Shadow and Eternal > *. (IMO of course

)

Akhilleus · Oct 23, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idburnu

I'm not trying to get involved in a two man debate regarding preferences over shield skins, though it is interesting and amusing to read, but do agree with Akhilleus big time on the +30hp always being the best choice, at least from my experience.

Sure you can argue that the +45/-2 enchanted is "better" in that you get more bonus while you are so, but Akhilleus is dead on with the penalty for that being shattered is significant and can be lethal.

On the +30hp always, you can plan your strategy based on the HP that you have and KNOW that you will have them no matter what happens from an adversary. Sure the -2/-3 is great for running Droknars and a -2/-2 works well for certain situations, but none of the HP bonus shields are worth anything to me but the + always variant. Who the heck wants to get their HP down to 150 and then take a 50 dmg hit while your enchantment/stance is over/shattered and drop another 45 instantly? Now you are at 55 and really up the ole' creek without a paddle. You may or may not even have a chance to switch up before you get smacked up. I know you are thinking, "why let your HP get down to 150 anyway?" Well, it happens and I don't like surprises like a 45hp drop compounding a dire situation.

The -2 enchantment bonus on the +30 always is just icing on the cake. A real nice pad when you have it, and no major harm when you don't. It could be -2 dmg vs. Blue Mongolian Swamp Rats and it still is a beautiful shield.
(IMO of course

)

lol, couldnt have said it better msyelf, especially that last part...and the swamp rats comment actually made me chuckle.